August 20th, 2010
Page 389
Comics for August 20, 2010 - Page 389
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August 20th, 2010 at 11:02 pm
Hmm I seem to recall hinting at this a few months back. It’s nice to know I was somewhat spot on.
August 20th, 2010 at 11:20 pm
I’m just glad it wasn’t a complete meltdown. Mentl has some spine.
August 20th, 2010 at 11:23 pm
But hasn’t Tula said that Mentl and Zona have something… more/stronger bond than magick?
August 20th, 2010 at 11:37 pm
Exactly, Matti. Ipola hints that there’s another way to know. This is definitely NOT the meltdown that I and many feared. Here’s hoping Tuesday skips Sat, Sun and Mon so we don’t have to wait.
(Still working on my time machine.)
August 20th, 2010 at 11:58 pm
Huh, I guess Vito’s not needed yet..
Actually, as this is the tower, I’m guessing; it probably has got more than a few wards against intrusive spirits…. aggressive scrying, unauthorized portal jumping.
So maybe Vito’s getting his Visa stamped at the border… and he just hasn’t caught up with the group yet….
OI Vey, I don’t even want to IMAGINE That kinda paperwork
August 21st, 2010 at 12:32 am
I must say I am getting a bit tired of the wild accusations, now its “control”? What a complete overreaction to the situation and a hostile one at that. She should know better than to believe Mentl has had any level of control over Zona. She has already said herself that mentl’s magic is without malice yet she herself is acting with considerable aggression.
And as far as Zona’s being forced to love mentl, I still say that is a load of crap. All we have seen of Mentl’s magic is lustful exuberance on the part of the listener and as ANYONE in the moon tribe could say there is a big difference between sex and love. sorry to beat the dead horse but still..
August 21st, 2010 at 12:33 am
I rather like the way they all handle it. “Are you sure?” “No… no, I’m not. Are you?”
The devil of it all, ironically, being the uncertainty.
August 21st, 2010 at 1:32 am
That last panel, Ipola’s expression…that just proves the civilized nature of the Erogenian culture. At least, for me. They DO have the best interests of *both* parties at heart–Mentl as well, not just their princess. It is a serious situation, yes, and the priestess is pressing that point home, but it’s clear that they’re willing to give Mentl the benefit of the doubt for his motives, and the benefit of their counsel for hopefully finding a way to fix this problem.
…Btw, on a completely different subject, I’m not sure how much I’ll be able to post in the next couple of weeks. I’m going to Australia for Worldcon, wewt!! *bouncybouncy!*
August 21st, 2010 at 1:53 am
It’s true they’re handing it in a civilized fashion, which is great for Mentl. But if it DOES turn out that Zona’s feelings for him turn out to be entirely generated by magic, he may very well wish for a quick execution.
Not that I think it’s as simple as Mentl putting a “love spell” on Zona or not. I expect it’s far more complicated than that, and they’re all going to be a while figuring it out. This arc may run into week after next.
August 21st, 2010 at 2:55 am
Ooh, ouch. I think my heart just broke a little for Mentl.
August 21st, 2010 at 3:16 am
@jean congrats on your being able to travel for worldcon wish I could fit into your luggage.
and not to rant or anything but it seems to me that every time Zona has talked about why she feels for mentl the way she does she has consistently refered to how mentl does not have any expectations of her. This aspect of her feeling must have come from Zona herself as I submit this is an aspect of her feelings that could not come from any of the songs Mentl has sung for her. I hear by throw down the gauntlet and ask ANYONE to submit the name of a song of any kind by any band written at any time that in anyway concerns the significant other being happy that the one singing the song does not hold any expectations of them or any other permutation of that idea or feeling.
otherwise Zona’s love must at least to some degree be genuine…
August 21st, 2010 at 3:33 am
@Calisto “She Likes Me For Me”?
August 21st, 2010 at 4:08 am
Good. He still has some fight left in him and doesn´t blindly panic and overreact because of “the experts”, yet.
Maybe this will be a bit different from the usual incarnations of that plot device.
Here´s hoping for the best. And the daughters to show up and throw some actual experience with the topic at the wise ones.
August 21st, 2010 at 4:14 am
Oh and awesome job on the next to last panel. It really looks like the old gal is throwing him a nice sympathetic gaze.
She came across as a bit of an enemy towards our Mentl, or rather much too guarded and suspicious. Comes with the territory I guess.
August 21st, 2010 at 4:28 am
Huh. what happened to all that magic that he was powering up on the last page? Or was that just a trick of the light that his eyes appeared to be glowing?
August 21st, 2010 at 4:43 am
Calisto, I believe you’re on to something…
…Dammit, a devil’s advocate bunny just bit me on the ankle. “Unless…she’s rationalizing why she likes this guy because she’s truggling against the compulsion of the love-songs…” …Hm, that bunny-bite is awfully weak. Not much of a devil’s advocacy here, folks. I think Calisto’s got it.
August 21st, 2010 at 8:06 am
Have a good trip, Jean. Must be one amazing experience.
Okay, Mentl is still coherent. That’s a good sign. So Mentl will have to stop the love songs now, won’t he?
August 21st, 2010 at 10:11 am
Thanks for a great page JED! I’ll accept it as my wedding present from you. ^_^ I’ll have to wait until I come back from the beach to read the updates-jealous! Keep up the good work!
August 21st, 2010 at 12:13 pm
To add my two cents… I DO think that Zona is in love with Mentl, just that there are things that he has done to speed the journey along that path. Are they over reacting… Probably. Will this make for an interesting story arc, though? Definitely!
And, Callisto…. I pick up your gauntlet!! Blessid Union of Souls - Hey Leonardo (She Likes Me for Me)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSdbQLXpmPQ
I know, little known song, but you did challenge, and I have to take up a musical challenge. (Maybe, my being a musician has something to do with that… NAH!!)
August 21st, 2010 at 1:50 pm
OK, I hate that old woman with the grey hair; She’s a nasty bitch, and seems to be the one driving the accusations against Mentl.
August 21st, 2010 at 1:59 pm
Midnightwolf (I presume that’s your full callsign?), that is not a “little known song.” XD;; Not if the frequency of its radio airings back in highschool is any indication of popularity. Good call, though I’m not entirely sure if Mentl has the lyrics under even his considerable musical expertise!
Possum, I feel for your dislike of the grayhair, but of the three Elders present, she seems to be the one with the least use for pussyfooting around the issue. Despite, y’know, all of them being Erogenian, she’s probably doing the most to get things moving towards a solid solution/conclusion, even if she has to play devil’s advocate to do so.
It doesn’t make her likable at the moment, but she does have her role to play.
August 21st, 2010 at 3:20 pm
OK, it’s not as bad as I feared, but there’s definitely going to be some cha balancing in order when this is done. I don’t care if it is her job, the High Priestess has leveled some pretty serious accusations against Mentl, ones which by her own admission she’s not even 100% certain of. It’s certainly not as bad as it could have been since they’re in a secluded area and not in front of the public, but it’s still something that if it turns out that there’s really no magical influence to Zona’s love is going to be a MAJOR insult to not only Mentl, but Zona as well…
And while Ipola appears to be heading towards starting to balance things out by a) giving him a straight answer, b) treating him a bit more “softly” in the last panel (I think she’s finally gotten the clue that this runs rather deep and she needs to tread a little more lightly), and c) from the look on her face, I’m beginning to think that this is more about being “Ipola, Zona’s mom” and less “Ipola, Queen of the Moon Tribe who’s concerned for her Champion”, which is probably something that will make Mentl cope with her worries a bit better (since it’s normal for your girlfriend’s mom to worry about her boyfriend :)).
The High Priest seems to still be trying to be gentle, so my original suspicion stands - once this is worked out, the two of them will be comparing notes
August 21st, 2010 at 6:56 pm
Mentl’s taking this better than I thought he would. Eagerly awaiting to see what happens next.
August 21st, 2010 at 7:30 pm
…Actually, I don’t consider it a major insult to Mentl. Mainly because they are going out of their way to INCLUDE doubt in these accusations, and to reassure him they don’t hate Mentl for what he may have inadvertently done. Frankly, once Mentl gets over the zomgwobblies of the moment and has a chance to think clearly about this, I think even he will agree this is a potentially serious subject that needs to be addressed as soon as possible.
Because when all of it HAS been addressed…which may take JED quite a while to work his way through the story to that point, even if he won the lottery…I think Mentl and Zona will be even more firmly in love–real love–than before.
August 21st, 2010 at 7:38 pm
No Mentl, we’re not kicking you out, but would you mind stop singinging love songs untill you learn control. Not because what happend with my daughter, but my boytoy from last night kept screaming your name…
—> Lame joke and guttermind aside, this shows once more how accepting and honourable the erogenians are, Mentl has placed the moontribe in what could be a very difficult situation, but instead of doing the easy black sheep routine, they recognise that Mentl had no ill intent and include him in any possible solution.
That said, my statement remains that Zona is to much grounded in the nonmagical part of the world to be affected by Mentl’s Magic.
August 21st, 2010 at 8:24 pm
Personally, I think the best test, like Lora said, is that Zona is going to have to go on a “No Love Songs” diet for a couple of weeks to dispel (gotta love that word under the circumstances) any residual magic that could be affecting her normal emotions.
So, if Mentl can manage to go without singing, whistling, or humming anything (pretty tough for a musical guy), they may soon have their answer.
Zona’s not going to like it, though. She may spend a few days being a bit disoriented, too, which will certainly heighten the drama. Let’s see if the characters think of this solution in the next panel…
August 21st, 2010 at 10:20 pm
Toldja. JED, you rule.
August 22nd, 2010 at 2:49 am
I think the “no love songs for X days, young man!” plan is coming, but I think he should suggest one last song first–as someone suggested a page or two back in the comments, Sting’s “If You Love Somebody, Set Them Free” would be one song even the Priestess couldn’t argue with. Especially considering how important intent can be with Mentl’s type of magic; I can’t imagine how Mentl could be MORE determined to undo any potential “influence” he might have had than he is at this moment.
August 22nd, 2010 at 3:33 am
@Kosine :Yes, Midnightwolf is my full call sign. First of all, thanks for the props! yeah, the song got lots of airplay when it first came out, but sadly, not so much anymore. It is wishful thinking that Mentl would know, but I can only hope!!
August 22nd, 2010 at 5:35 am
I would have been more worried if Mentl’s first reaction was defensive, but even he shares their doubts a little, which means hopefully they’ll all continue to treat this situation like responsible adults. It won’t kill em to go without music/magic for a while to see how things go.
August 22nd, 2010 at 12:34 pm
The Priestess really redeemed herself to me when she said “No - no I’m not. Are you?” There is also the real political importance among the tribes of Zona as Champion — this is something we’ve barely touched on. We’ve seen Zona as herself and as a representative/princess of the Moontribe, but it seems that Zona could also be considered almost as a strategic weapon, to help keep the tribes in line. If your big stick is cracked, the others will try to take advantage of this to gain power and will create chaos — and now is a really bad time for that.
August 22nd, 2010 at 1:36 pm
Not buying the excuses. I still think the old woman is a bitch with a personal agenda. Note how the other two admitted being attracted to Mentl, and she did not. Was she immune, or just too proud to admit it? Is she sublimating that attraction into resentment?
And I don’t see that “No, are you?” as backing off; I see it as sinking a barb, and issuing a challenge.
August 22nd, 2010 at 2:01 pm
I would suggest that the heart of Ippola’s warmth towards Mentl is hinted at in the pre-sequel story “How I Met Your Father”.
August 22nd, 2010 at 3:21 pm
From what we’ve seen so far I’ve no doubt in my mind as to the authenticity of Zona’s feelings for Mentl. Why? Simple; as we’ve come to know these characters, we’ve come to understand what Zona values in the people she let’s in her life; honesty, courage and empathy (the whole “balancing of the cha” business); Mentl has shown all of these in spades. Has Mentl’s abilities affected her? Of course they have, but I seriously doubt that Mentl could make someone love him. Lust after him, sure (we saw that with the hybrid female, forget her name) but love? Too complex, methinks. Rather, I think that what Mentl’s done is to amplify what Zona feels for him, based on his own merits. Though he really, REALLY does need a teacher!
August 22nd, 2010 at 4:11 pm
yepers .
Tis time for the disciple to find his master or mistress whatever the case.
August 22nd, 2010 at 6:00 pm
I find myself disliking Karna; for a priestess, she appears to be displaying an extreme lack of empathy here, especially when you consider that Zona’s mother, who truly wants the best for her daughter, is behaving with more compassion towards the man who might have enchanted her child.
Anyway… Wishing it was Tuesday already. Le sigh.
August 22nd, 2010 at 10:43 pm
@cagetheraven and midnightwolf (two very cool names BTW) Ok I think that song may be as close as possible to what I was talking about however I have a few points to make.
1. The lyrics of the song are reversed from what would be Zona’s persective. “me” would have to be the singer so it is saying “ZONA loves mentl for mentl” rather than “Mentl love zona for Zona” if you can follow the analogue. Basicly for what I was talking about hte song is completely backwards accept for a single line in the lyrics.
2. I don’t think this particular song is one Mentl would have sung for her. It is a cool song but isn’t really a love song more of a love story. Think about it, if you were singing it to a significant other this song basically says “you love me not because I happen to be the best thing since sliced bread but just because” gee that sounds humble and romantic, of all the songs Mentl has to choose from “she loves me for me” seems an off chioce and not just for the lyrics either the tempo and delivery is off for a love song as well
3. lets say is is a perfect example of what I was talking about, it happens to be the ONLY example we can find (I have been looking around for some time) I think it unlikely Zona could/would have heard it more than once if at all and that does not seem to be enough of an exposure to explain the depth of Zona’s feelings for him.
I have to say I agree with firegoat (another cool name BTW): Zona’s strong feeling for Mentl make perfect sense considering the type of person Mentl has PROVEN himself to be. Basically honest, courageous, loving and willing to stand up for himself, all characteristics Zona values. That plus his statement that he was willing to die for her or with her PLUS the whole standing over her with a frying pan to protect her and the numerous other times he has shown how genuine HIS feelings are for her. Oh yeah and he happens to be hung like a moose, really what’s not to love?
August 23rd, 2010 at 1:25 am
Excellent facial expressions in these panels. Something no-one’s really mentioned (at least I don’t think so), but I think is a key. Whether or not Zona’s feelings are genuine, although important, is not the biggest problem. Instead, from the Erogeneanss’ perspective, it’s this: as champion, Zona may find herself in a situation where she has to weigh Mentl’s good against the good of the Moon Tribe. How can she do this if she’s in any way, intentionally or not, bespelled? Right now, if someone kidnapped Mentl, what would Zona do if her people were also threatened? Zona’s position requires hard decisions, and that’s what the real worry is about—that she can’t choose the good for the greatest number of people.
And sorry to burst the ‘no requirements’ thing, but the songs could make Zona feel that she already *is* the person they ’speak’ of. A very necessary part of a successful love spell, I should think, would be that it convinces the person it’s cast on that she’s very fundamentally someone else. How many times have you been told by someone (trying to let you down easy) they’re ‘not the right person’ for you? An effective love spell would change them so that they were, in fact, the right person.
August 23rd, 2010 at 2:21 am
Wow, @Raoul, that’s a really nasty thought.
I think I can speak for everyone when I say I hope that’s not the case.
Also: Yay, Mentl! No breakdown!
I’ve always found that to be an especially annoying anime trope, somebody suffers a major emotional shock and their brain immediately shatters. If that happened in real life the human race would have wiped itself out a LONG time ago.
August 23rd, 2010 at 3:24 am
@Callisto Thanks, I like the name too:P
But our point, I think, is the same..
“She Likes me for me” She= Zona, the subject of the song, Mentl would be the singer..
You said, “I have to say I agree with firegoat (another cool name BTW): Zona’s strong feeling for Mentl make perfect sense considering the type of person Mentl has PROVEN himself to be. Basically honest, courageous, loving and willing to stand up for himself, all characteristics Zona values. That plus his statement that he was willing to die for her or with her PLUS the whole standing over her with a frying pan to protect her and the numerous other times he has shown how genuine HIS feelings are for her.” Which is, essentially, the point of the chosen song..
It’s not because of how he’s hung:P but because of WHO he is. and what he tries to do for her even if it fails, the fact is that he HAS tried. I think “She likes me for me,” is pretty spot on.
August 23rd, 2010 at 6:39 am
@Raoul good point but that isn’t how we have seen the songs working on Zona. When Mentl sang “yesterday” to her she didn’t feel she was the subject only that the woman in the song offended the cha in a way that could not be balanced. Zona simply applied her values to the subject of the song as though the song was about a real event/person. I think what you say could be possible but again not without intent, it would have to be a concerted effort on the part of Mentl as Zona has very strong ideas of who/what she is.
And as far as the real problem being Zona’s ability to judge what is best between one person’s needs and that of the moon tribe, who can make such judgements on their own? The whole point of having counsel around is so one person, Zona, Ipola or anyone else doesn’t have to make such choices. Mentl kidnapped? spell or no spell I have a hard time believing there is a force on the planet that could stop Zona from going after Mentl. How could she do anything else and it be seen as balanced?
August 23rd, 2010 at 7:38 am
I would like to step up to the plate and defend the High Priestess. JD has went on record saying she IS doing her job. So what might her job be? Let’s look at the culture, shall we? Tribal where the word of the Queen may well be law, but the views of the advisers are highly regarded. Not exactly a trusting culture, but a culture that DOES NOT lie. Yet needs to regularly deal with other societies that do. It would make sense in that angle of things that if you only had two advisers, one would try to see the good in everyone, and the other would try to see the bad in everyone. Your job as ruler would be to judge what the person actually meant based on knowledge, body language, and other cues. The High Priestess’s job is to assume the worst about people, because if the person they were facing was Kalvarian, and everyone at the table was assuming the best, and trusting what he said at face value, they would be #$*&. So yeah, no one likes her right now. She very possibly doesn’t like what she is doing. (and yeah, she may have some personal motives). But the fact that the queen is coming across as more reasonable and understand DOES just mean that EVERYONE is doing their jobs.
August 23rd, 2010 at 7:47 am
Sorry about typos. I have spotted 3 thus far.
August 23rd, 2010 at 7:51 am
Look at pages 69-70.
August 23rd, 2010 at 11:58 am
That would be pages
http://www.soulgeek.com/comics/zona/2006/08/31/page-68/
and
http://www.soulgeek.com/comics/zona/2006/09/08/page-69/
for the archive challenged, like myself.
And for the record, I have full faith that a Kalvarian could honor that and tell you the truth, and still be lying to your face in intent. Assuming the worst about people is not the same as lying. It is all in how you look a the facts presented.
August 23rd, 2010 at 12:03 pm
And I also submit the last panel of http://www.soulgeek.com/comics/zona/2006/10/05/page-73/ for the Kalvarian take on lying.
August 23rd, 2010 at 12:29 pm
Welll, weellll weeeeeeelllllll ….
Well.
So the discussion is lively, and I think that’s marvelous! Today is my birthday, so I’m taking the night off to go out. Tuesday’s update will be Tuesday Night, not Morning, so you’ll all have to wait the extra 18 hours or so. Sorry `bout that.
As I have remarked before, there’s a real downside to this jazz of only two updates per week. Most of the time I get around it in somewhat the same way Hal Foster did, when he invented the whole weekly serial comic back in 1937. This scene, though,doesn’t work as well in pieces. It’s meant to flow a certain way together, and so it may seem to say one thing when broken up that it maybe isn’t, and so I would advise you all to withhold judgment until everything has fallen out. And there will be fall out. But however it falls out, I would bet four thousand quatloos that nobody will be indifferent. Just remember that the story isn’t over until my characters finish telling it.
And, of course, until you all finish reading it. Many thanks!
JED
August 23rd, 2010 at 7:13 pm
Happy Birthday Brother. Have a good time and don’t blow it all in one place.
August 23rd, 2010 at 7:17 pm
Hmm. I would wager Mentl is still in shock over the sheer realization that it could be possible . . .
August 23rd, 2010 at 7:53 pm
Ipola’s face in that last panel is so beautiful. Her eyes are positively glowing with maternal warmth and love, both of the physical and emotional sense toward Mentl.
August 23rd, 2010 at 8:07 pm
If we have a hypothesis going here, Karna, we need to test it. Pick a mood or emotion that is NOT remotely normal for Zona. Have Michael try to sing it into her without telling her what the expected emotion is, best would be in another language. Supervised by Tula and Karna. Not that I expect that kind of rationality.
@Jean - have a great trip hon, I haven’t been to a WC since 2001.
August 24th, 2010 at 2:10 am
Happy Birthday, JED!
And you guys are probably right about the love spell—but that’s how I would do it. Just for the record, I do think the priestess is simply doing her job. Somebody has to be Miss Bedonebyasyoudid. So to speak. And I truly admire Ipola for trying to make this easier for Mentl. How many moms would do that for the guy who may have corrupted their daughters?
August 24th, 2010 at 6:06 am
as interesting as this plot point is, I cant help but think its a Red Herring. first off, as Tula is an accomplished priestess, and if Zona was acting out of character by her own sister, It leads one to conclude that she might have already investigated said idea and unless mentel uses some divination-proof magic i dont see Tula missing it, likewise, i have to wonder if this isnt another test to see how trustworthy Mentel is. would he sacrifice all that he has if there is a chance its all a lie? furthermore, the High Priestess seems more gung-ho on the whole “this man is trouble and should be dealt with accordingly” then the others, thus making HER judgement suspect as well. there is a difference between ‘i think you’re a threat’ and ‘you’ve enslaved one of ours’ which is what the high priestess seems to be standing to firmly.
now, to the priestess’ defense, we have seen mentl use his powers offensively, but, again, we have to smash her argument aside in that the only people he’s enchanted (even temporarily) were willing members (groupies, the queen, the half-urrt girl) which might mean that despite zona’s preference for big burly warrior men, there was something in mentl that she found attractive which would make her cooperating with the spell rather then enthralling her like he’s basically being accused of.
August 24th, 2010 at 6:58 am
Sorry Wolf.
I was pointing out page 68-69 as evidence that Zona wasn’t glamoured. It doesn’t rule it out, but the absolute line she drew about their relationship, past, present, and future kind of seems to rule out a love enchantment.
I’m rather a fan of the high priestess myself.
August 24th, 2010 at 10:43 am
Where the heck is Zona herself when you need her. . .
I mean, her kicking down the door and going all “WTF” on this bunch’d be nice. >.<
August 24th, 2010 at 11:26 am
@NP, sadly, I will now point you to http://www.soulgeek.com/comics/zona/2006/12/22/page-89/
The poor girl is DEFINATELY being enchanted, the only question is whether or not being in love is part of the enchantment. If you continue to follow the pages through that description, I honestly think that YES she is in love with him, not for the enchantments, but for him.
August 24th, 2010 at 11:41 am
And for the record, after the pause http://www.soulgeek.com/comics/zona/2007/03/10/page-100/ continues the conversation in my mind, in that they have not had ANY music since the night before.
August 24th, 2010 at 6:33 pm
Happy birthday, JED.
Damn it, Wolf! Now I went archive binging. *sigh* That was not supposed to happen… I have a train to catch tomorrow(day), y’know.